cuzoftheeast 8:25 Sat Sep 26
Noble poor
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Tries to do too much and does not hold position
Cresswell is worse positionally
Kouyate and obiang must start
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
Sir Alf
10:27 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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Home form and results, and tactics to achieve them, will be based on more of a possession game. This is West Ham's challenge and has been for some time. The stats under BFS showed we rarely had the larger share of possession. Our ball retention was very low. We are trying to change that to exploit the talents of new members of the squad.
We also struggle to get the ball from the opposition.
Why is this?
Bilic was right that our closing and pressurising of Norwich was not good enough. We were giving them too much space. That was partially down to his selections IMO. But he does learn I think. We lacked a defensive midfielder and the work rate across the midfield to close Norwich down for long periods. We were better when Obiang took on the defensive midfield role.
There needs to be more movement and better passing accuracy at pace when we have the ball and increased work rate and closing down when we do not have it. This is what we have to achieve at home. Do we have the players to do that well?
Obiang sitting deep helped. Song in a deeper role will help. Noble, Kouyate. Payet, Moses. Lanzini all look to get forward or at least are not always closing the space enough.
Will be interesting with a fit Song and a more mobile outlet like Valencia in the mix. They might help us keep the ball more effectively but some of the creative midfield players we have need to work harder when we do not have the ball. IMHO of course :-)
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Hammers1993
6:06 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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I think the reason we lost against Bournemouth and Leicester had a big helping factor from Cresswell's mistake in the Leicester game (Although Leicester did deserve that game) and the mistakes from Cresswell and Jenkinson in relatively unpressured situations that could of been helped meaning we were 2-0 down in both games, always a long way back.
But I see your point, they didn't have cover a lot of the time.
I still feel the unecessary mistakes cost us those games though.
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dazz
6:06 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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I love the way we play Away... would'nt change it ever...
the reason the away formation works is that we have the players especially in midfield with that High stamina to work and defend effectively for long periods..
i expect our away form to continue ... we have the squad ... why not ?
the home form is the biggest question.
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Alex V
5:57 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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>>> I would still play Payet in the centre ahead of the 3 Alex, either behind two strikers or you could play him and moses in a two behind Sakho.. Could work.
I would argue we kind of tried that against Leicester and Bournemouth and came totally unstuck. Full backs exposed etc.
The trouble with some of the attacking ideas imo is that it's basically taking a risk we might not need to take. Play three roving attackers in a team and you're hoping they overload the opposition, but if they don't you're in trouble. That's my main criticism of all three home games so far - we took risks and came unstuck when actually if we'd just taken a solid approach we would have stood a much better chance of beating a weaker opponent without gambling.
I think the better teams have a broad system they try and play every match. They tweak it for circumstance but basically they have a settled approach. We haven't found that yet imo. If your system doesn't work against Bournemouth or Norwich at home, is it likely to ever work week in week out against better sides or on the road?
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dazz
5:44 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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Oviously i'd have Valencia and Sakho up front at home evry time ... they can press really well together ...
I'd drop Payet behind the two ... the havoc created with these speedsters
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Far Cough
5:44 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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No one's getting wound up, I was expressing an err, opinion.
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Hammers1993
5:42 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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I would still play Payet in the centre ahead of the 3 Alex, either behind two strikers or you could play him and moses in a two behind Sakho.. Could work.
By the way this site is all for opinions, no one is claiming this should be done nor is anyone saying they should be making the decisions over Bilic.
Funny how wound up some people get over people having an opinion on a forum site.
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Alex V
5:41 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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dazz 5:36 Thu Oct 1
If you play two up front would you drop Payet? Presumably not :).
If you play Payet and two strikers it's quite a cavalier attacking approach that could be very dangerous defensively imo.
I think one answer is actually to try Payet playing up front off the striker. I'd like to see us try that sometime.
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Alex V
5:38 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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The problem that Bilic is having, I think, is that if he does play his solid three midfielders in there then Payet realistically has to play a more disciplined wide role which doesn't totally suit him imo. Although it worked pretty well at Anfield.
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Far Cough
5:37 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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No, tactics is not my forte, I usually defer to the person who is paid the big money to make those decisions, that's not to say they can't get it wrong on occasion .
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dazz
5:36 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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Imho... at home i think we need 2 strikers up front ..... period ,
i dont care about the formation behind the front two ... thats up to the gaffer .
but definately 2 up front (pressing defence from the front)
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Hammers1993
5:35 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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Now that is something I can agree on croe. That is exactly what we need, Obiang sitting then two ahead of him, which for me, if all fit would be Kouyate and Song. With Noble on the bench to come on if needed.
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Alex V
5:34 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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Far Cough 5:24 Thu Oct 1
Well the truth is that there is more than one way to set up, and there are examples from all over the world of football to draw from. It's not a question of trusting Bilic or me, particularly as Bilic has been experimenting with different formations so far including the one I strongly favour.
Do you have any opinion on the matter?
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whufcroe
5:29 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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West Ham have struggled at home because we've either exposed the full backs by having a narrow midfield or losing the midfield because we've played FOUR offensive players.
We need to have a sold 3 central midfielders with working in a narrow diamond with 3 offensive players or with 2 wide players and a forward.
Obiang looks made to shield the defence and then you have two in front of him out of Noble, Song and Kouyate.
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Far Cough
5:24 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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YOU would like us to set up different?
Hmmm, who to trust on setting up tactically, Alex V or Bilic?
It's a toughie for sure
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Grumpster
5:22 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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I'm looking forward to after Saturday's game so that we can have the weekly fresh Noble out thread.
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Alex V
5:19 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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Far Cough 5:15 Thu Oct 1
Not a contradiction at all. I'm saying we almost always use an anchor man in midfield, but I would prefer us to be set up differently.
It is weird that when teams play three at the back or one up front fans and pundits accept and understand the differences very readily. But the very different ways of lining up a midfield seem to get missed or ignored.
Most of this thread seems to be about Noble generally as a 'midfielder' but doesn't acknowledge that he played an anchor role for about 5 years, and now mostly he is playing a very different role in the midfield. It's actually a massively important change in his career.
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Far Cough
5:15 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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Alex V 5:12 Thu Oct 1
the anchor man sits in front of the defence and sweeps up behind the midfield and in front of the defence - it's a role that one player plays not a partnership at all.
Alex V 4:53 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
Hammers1993 4:37 Thu Oct 1
I like two players in a defensive midfield as a proper shield.
Slight contradiction there Alex?
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Eric Hitchmoe
5:13 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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"Eerie Descent 4:41 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
Kayoute is massively overrated by a lot of our fans."
And massively misspelled by others.
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Alex V
5:12 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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>>> ...Noble and Song formed an excellent partnership in the first half of last season...
I thought they often looked deeply uncomfortable together - Noble was almost exclusively used as an anchor man under Allardyce, so it looked difficult when he was forced to play differently. But then again the way we tried to attack was so different at that time it's almost pointless to compare to now.
I also think a lot of times we talk about midfield partnerships we're being quite inaccurate, because for example Kouyate played in most if not all of the same games as Noble and Song, so it was arguably a trio. Really when we play an anchor man in midfield it isn't a partnership at all - the anchor man sits in front of the defence and sweeps up behind the midfield and in front of the defence - it's a role that one player plays not a partnership at all.
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whufcroe
5:10 Thu Oct 1
Re: Noble poor
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* be still my beating heart
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